For the (ex-) sabre fencers
Do you think cross-training in epee, sabre or foil would be helpful for a kendoka? The reason I ask is that I have just finished reading 'One Touch at a Time' and many of the concepts the Maestro explains have resonance for us.
And a supplementary question. What are the main differences in atmosphere and approach between a salle and a dojo?
Thanks
Do you think cross-training in epee, sabre or foil would be helpful for a kendoka? The reason I ask is that I have just finished reading 'One Touch at a Time' and many of the concepts the Maestro explains have resonance for us.
And a supplementary question. What are the main differences in atmosphere and approach between a salle and a dojo?
Thanks
As mentioned the footwork is entirely different. Sabre and foil have right of way conventions which messed me up mentally for over a year. The concepts of distance and tempo are important in all disciplines.
I have noticed that one of the main things that folks have difficulty learning is the "range" of their weapon, i.e., how far do you have to make a valid hit, i.e., what fencing calls the near and far targets , a concept that is common to both disciplines. Oji waza are easier to learn if you have had saber experience since the parry-riposte (at least in the older more classical game) is much more likely to be successful.
Fencing also teaches you what is called in the military the OOAD cycle [Orientation, Observation, Analysis and Decision]. This is another term for mind-no mind, in that with constant practice the OOAD cycle becomes progressively shortened and finally automatic. This is what allows 8th Dan Sensei's to whip your b*tt even though their pure physical skills are substantially below those of 15 to 30 year olds.
Finally, the ambience of a fencing salle is much more relaxed than a dojo. The best ones are run as business enterprises and the instructors give 1:1 lessons on a periodic basis for which you pay $ to $$$ depending on what you think their instruction is worth.
I'm glad you enjoyed Maestro Kogler's book, it helped me conceptualize kendo concepts in a more Western fashion.
Both work well together. No problem.
Reigi.
Also, while many of the concepts are the same, footwork is quite different.
Jakob
Yours in Martial Spirit, Jon Palombi
The Salle I went to was filled with lots of young kids (10-
14) and some older (21 - 25) who had all trained in fencing for a long time (only 3 beginners out of 26 regulars), so the training outlook was quite fast-paced and very competitive.
The Dojo I train atm has 3 younger students (12yrs old) along with 12 older students (20 - 35) and cos we're not accredited, there's no traning for shiai, only kihon and ji-geiko. Generally more slower paced learning and not so competitive, everyone is more to help one another to learn as much as possible. Oh and we dont have such a beginner-advanced disparity, there are only a 5 people in our class higher than 3-kyu and we have 3 dans
Then again, if there is a lot of competition in your country (eg Germany, France, Italy), fencing can be really really fun, so don't let me discourage you!
I absolutely disagree. Beginners are often afraid of bouting. They don't "feel" the opponent preparing to move. They don't comprehend the chess-like game. The fear of losing paralyzes them. All of this give an edge to someone who has fenced for a long time and assists in the learning process.
As JSchmidt and Theodore pointed out, the footwork in fencing is quite different to Kendo. I only took Kendo up in the last month or two, but I fenced foil on average 2-3 times a week for about 5 or so years (from when I was 13 till when I was 18), with an individual lesson every week for 20 minutes. Quite often in kendo my footwork starts to become fencing footwork, my left foot perpetually creeping back and to the side. It seems like this will be quite a hard habit to overcome.
Unless you have adequate heel protection and fence on a properly sprung floor, I can almost guarantee you will get problems with your right or left heel (depending on whether you are left or right handed) after fencing for a few years. You have probably noticed that the fancier fencing shoes have a lot of heel protection on the left or right heel. Assuming you are right handed, after pushing off with your left foot you have to bring your right heel down first at the end of a lunge in fencing (foil at least), so this can lead to pretty serious problems with your heel after a while. Fencing is a very one sided exercise as well (obviously you are turned side on), so you can get muscular/skeletal problems as well if you fence often for a long time (and don't do much other exercise, like weights at gym). The Australian national champion in foil had problems like this. For instance, depending on whether you are left or right handed, one arm basically does absolutely nothing strenuous. Even now, there is quite a noticable difference in the size of my right arm to my left (I am right handed).
I guess fencing does have some similarities to kendo - distance, timing, etc., but the application of these concepts to fencing is different enough that I don't think it will help your kendo much. In fact some aspects of fencing (such as right of way in foil) and techniques (such as flicking in electric) seem to be non-existent in kendo.
Given two people, starting kendo at the same time, one an average fencer and one not, I think both will progress at the same rate if they put an equal amount of effort in. Running/weights would probably benefit you more.
Then again, if there is a lot of competition in your country (eg Germany, France, Italy), fencing can be really really fun, so don't let me discourage you!
All fencing is the mastery of distance and timing. You can change the weapons, the waza and the court - it still breaks down to how well you apply the concepts to the techniques. Beautiful application of technique without distance and timing is worthless for combat. I find kendo so much more satisfying, because its not just a matter of another wise ass home from college, walking around the salle looking to bout with anyone to show off his lightning reflexes. (Although it was always great fun to be old and slow and send them packing) We have a class structure, run with discipline and demonstrations of absolute respect between participants. It makes for a much more satisfying and civilized experience.
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